Customer experience in financial services
On this episode of The CMO Show, Mark is joined by Jon Stona, Vice President – Global Marketing at Airwallex and Melissa Shannon, Global Head and Managing Director, Digital Sales and Performance Marketing at Standard Chartered.
In this climate, how are banks reimagining the experience they offer customers when it comes to convenience, transparency, and protection? And as trust becomes ever more central to consumer engagement, what role do marketers play in the how those principles are carried and expressed?
The pace of technological change is extraordinary, and reactions to it are extreme: from unlocking productivity to diminishing trust and beyond.
For Jon, the Airwallex purpose of creating a world where businesses of all sizes, regardless of industry, can operate without borders and restrictions, has meant paying attention to how this message is shared authentically and safely with customers.
“Show, don't tell. There's a fair degree of trust, particularly when it comes to FinTech that's quite critical. How do you instill enough trust that allows someone to actually take that leap and to really embrace new technology?” says Jon.
“We prioritise and obsess about where our audience is right now, what do they care about, what's top of mind for them, engage them on that level, and then have that social proof to say, "It's not that difficult. Look at all these other folks like you who have done this easily and who are actually seeing the benefit."
--
The technological pace of chance is something that Melissa Shannon, Global Head and Managing Director, Digital Sales and Performance Marketing at Standard Chartered, is equally focused on leveraging – especially when it comes to generative artificial intelligence.
“We have a committee that looks at everything from the decisioning systems to the technology to the legal to diversity and inclusion to make sure that we're not being biased,” Melissa says.
“It's exciting, it's powerful, but also we really make sure we're thinking about the customer and we're doing it in the right way to protect them and protect the [organisation].”
Tune in to heard Jon and Melissa on the trust, fintech, and the role of customer experience.
You might also like:
Credits
####
The CMO Show Production Team
Producer - Pamela Obeid
Audio Engineers – Ed Cheng & Daniel Marr
####
Transcript:
Mark Jones
The pace of technological change is extraordinary, and that’s particularly relevant in financial services.
Consumers expect amazing experiences, and trust is critical.
It’s an interesting set of demands for CMOs and marketers. What universal lessons can we learn from them?
--
Hello, Mark Jones here and you’re listening to The CMO Show, a podcast made for and made by marketing professionals, brought to you by ImpactInstitute in partnership with Adobe.
Now, trust is important for all consumers, but financial institutions in particular have a calling to reimagine their experience when it comes to customer convenience, transparency, and safety.
Our two guests today have some valuable insight as to the current state of trust and the role customer experience plays in building it.
I’m thrilled to introduce you to our first guest – Jon Stona, Vice President – Global Marketing at Airwallex. Jon brings to the table a background working at Stripe and Google, and also holds an MBA from the Stanford University Graduate School of Business.
Our next guest is Melissa Shannon, Global Head and Managing Director, Digital Sales and Performance Marketing at Standard Chartered.
Melissa’s experience ranges between Apple, Vodafone, and Dell, making her a force to be reckoned with in the performance marketing space.
Let’s dive right in.
Jon, great to see you.
Jon Stona
Mark, fantastic to be here. Thank you so much for having me on the show.
Mark Jones
Now, let's just start from the top. Airwallex, known quite well by some and probably not at all by others. Give us the elevator pitch.
Jon Stona
Sure. I think Airwallex really comes down to helping businesses grow, unlock more scale. A lot of what I do and my team does, like you Mark, is fundamentally to be storytellers. When we think a bit about Airwallex's history, the company really was founded with a single purpose in mind, and that was to create a world where businesses of all sizes, large, small, regardless of industry, can operate without borders and restrictions. And essentially by doing so, we think about that larger impact to accelerate the digital economy in the world. Now, again, I'm kind of biased. I think I can make a fairly valid case that we probably have that best payments and financial platform to essentially help businesses manage money, scale their financial operations, be more efficient, again, fundamentally so that they can spend more time on their growth.
Mark Jones
Tell me about the problem. I've always been a fan of businesses, and I mean this sincerely, that clipped the ticket because if you can get yourself into, it's a sustainable business opportunity where we have transactions that exist in a global context, and you've just referred to that. What was the problem within that context? Was it a margin problem in terms of the amount we pay for transactions? When you talk about the positive aspects of business, I know we'll get there, but what was the fundamental customer problem, do you think?
Jon Stona
Yeah. I think the fundamental customer problem is varied. If you look at the entire ways of how businesses typically manage money, move money, manage their financial operations, it's fairly legacy and fairly inefficient. There's a certain cost that, or a necessary cost that many businesses incur by kind of using legacy solutions. There's a certain inefficiency just through manual process, whether everything from how you pay for expenses, how you reimburse expenses, again, how you, transfer money from point A to point B, how you accept payments internationally and do so in a fairly compliant and secure way.
There's just many inefficiencies along that entire journey for a business. Again, whether you're large or small. At every step of the chain from accepting money, holding money, converting money, paying out money, and especially across borders, Airwallex really exists to alleviate some of that efficiency for a business owner.
Mark Jones
How do you tell the story of the better way without it sounding too good to be true?
Jon Stona
Of course, of course. Oftentimes, it's don't take our word for it. Take the word of our customers. Fundamentally, show, don't tell. There's a fair degree of trust that particularly when it comes to FinTech that, that's quite critical because it's not only that people don't know, sometimes it's a matter of how do you instil enough trust that allows someone to actually take that leap and to really embrace the kind of new technology? And we've seen these paradigm shifts happen in a number of kind of industries, whether it's advertising, communication, you name it. But people are fundamentally very protective of their finances, of their money, because they put their blood, sweat and tears into growing their business. Obviously, on our side, we take that very seriously.
But for me as a marketer, I also need to engage folks at their level through the right message, at the right time, through the right channels. And I think that's sometimes where marketers trip up a little bit in that we tend to speak to the audience in a way that we want to speak to them through the channels that we want to speak to them. And in reality, that should be flipped. We really should kind of prioritise and obsess about where our audience is right now, what do they care about, what's top of mind for them, engage them on that level, and then have that social proof to say, "It's not that difficult. Look at all these other folks like you who have done this easily and who are actually seeing the benefit." Again, really show, don't just tell.
Because it's not about necessarily championing Airwallex or being sterile, or being functional, there are enough companies in the market that do payments, that do finance. We're going to have to differentiate at that emotional level. And how we do that is by championing the ethos of the type of business that is willing to be a step changer, that's willing to actually take that first leap into that new technology.
So what you'll start to see is a lot of partnership, a lot of, again, whether it's customer partnership, partnership with like-minded brands like McLaren as an example. You'll start to see us really champion that ethos, that kind of challenging the status quo mindset, that not being afraid to take that risk in the service of progress. And we will very much lean into that emotion because fundamentally, we are here to champion the entrepreneur. We're here to champion and make it easier for a founder or business owner to actually grow and scale across borders.
[STING]
Mark Jones
Customer experiences are constantly evolving and shifting, and they're doing so extraordinarily fast in this current moment I might add, because suddenly everybody's got their hands on AI or generative AI tools. And I'm just picking on that as an example - it's shifting our expectations of what's possible. And by what's possible, it means, well, why hasn't X brand already done this other thing that I've seen somewhere else?
Jon Stona
Yeah, I mean, look, at the end of the day, you are right, change is happening at a fast pace. But fundamentally, I think gone are the days of these bloated marketing teams and bloated marketing strategies where you have to only make decisions once a year and you do your big piece of research and then you do your entire five-year strategy based on that. I mean, that's more of a legacy marketing organisation.
The fact is information is dynamic and constant and as a marketing org, you need to build a process, especially with your broader commercial teams to feed in that insight on a regular basis. And so you don't have to, again, do a formal research study.
You can walk across to the desk of your sales team and say, what have you been hearing this week? You can sit on sales calls, understand what are customers saying, what are prospects saying? Why are you winning deals and why are you losing deals? You can do that on a weekly basis, fairly ad hoc.
And so I'd say point number two, don't over complicate, don't over engineer. Use common sense. Common sense oftentimes trumps a lot of formality. Similarly, we obviously talk a lot about, and this has become quite cliche, data, data, data, but really data does have to be your best friend when it comes to being a modern-day marketer.
Now, if you're a big organisation, you might have the luxury of having a separate data team. And I think one of the things that we do at Airwallex is that data team is a part of my leadership team and marketing as well. They're involved intimately in day-to-day discussions, operations, because we need data to inform decisions.
Now, if you don't have the luxury of having a separate team, as a marketer, build that acumen yourself. But fundamentally though, don't obsess about data for the sake of having data obsess about data for making decisions. There's a big difference.
Mark Jones
What are the classic pitfalls that you've seenI don't want to make this personal, but in your career, because you've had some really exciting opportunities, and maybe you might want to touch on that?
But some of the pitfalls that come to the mindset around the work we're speaking about here, it actually requires a really, I hate to use the word agile because it's jargon, but that quick thinking, prepare to identify the biases that are in your mind as it were. Be prepared to be wrong, looking to where things are going.
There's a mindset I'm describing there that maybe there's a shadow side here or some part of this dynamic that really some people struggle with. And the trigger point for me was your comment about the old-school legacy marketing mindset.
So there's a distinction here, and I'm just interested in your perspective on that. I got a sense you've crossed that bridge.
Jon Stona
Yeah. I mean, you sometimes have to unlearn and you have to constantly unlearn and develop. I was actually having a discussion with another peer this morning, and she was thinking of moving from a big company world, been there for over a decade into more of that startup field.
One of the topics we were talking about is oftentimes you're so used and trained to do things theoretically that a big determination of your success, especially in the high-growth company world, is your ability to unlearn some of the truths that you probably took for granted for many years.
And so I think there's a certain degree of humility, there's a certain degree of growth mindset that's necessary, and there's a certain willingness to realise that you probably don't and you're not necessarily going to be the smartest in the room all the time.
I think one of the biggest benefits that I've had through years also being a hiring manager is being comfortable and being deliberate about hiring people that are actually smarter than I am. Because fundamentally, yes, hopefully I can teach someone something as well, but ultimately I need people on the team who can teach me as well, and we collectively can drive growth.
There's again, that degree of humility as a leader to understand you're not going to know everything. And so that growth mindset is quite important.
Mark Jones
I love that. Jon, we're done, in more ways than one. That's really a lot of fun. And I just want to say how much I have enjoyed this conversation. Appreciate your insights. I think you've got lots of stuff to draw on here. But what's interesting to me is how you are so geared around where this is going. And I've appreciated just being so open and honest about sharing your story. Thank you so much for your time today.
Jon Stona
Thank you so much again, Mark. And thanks for all that you do as well to share learnings with the community. Much appreciated.
Mark Jones
It is an absolute pleasure. Thanks, Jon.
That was Jon Stona, Vice President – Global Marketing at Airwallex.
A point we can all take away from my chat with Jon is the importance of your audience. Perhaps Jon said it best – we, as marketers, need to almost obsess over our audience, and really figure out what they care about. Once you narrow that down, the rest is history.
My next guest uses her background in performance marketing to explore avenues like Gen AI and customer tracking to entice audiences both locally and globally.
Thanks for joining us, Melissa.
Melissa Shannon
It's an absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Mark Jones
Now we've got to start with the Australian accent of person who lived in California for 10 years and then Singapore and worked really kind of all over the place. Can you give me a potted history of where you've been and what you've done?
Melissa Shannon
Sure. Look, I've been fairly lucky in the sense that most of the roles I've been invited to have and invited to join the companies I've mostly worked. I think I've only even applied for two jobs.
Mark Jones
You are a recruiter's worst nightmare.
Melissa Shannon
I know. I don't know what it'll be like when I finally come back because some people don't seem to like people with overseas experience. But yeah, look, I started out actually in digital agencies, really working on branding, corporate branding back in the dot bomb era. Fast tracked from there to go client side because I felt that was important to have that blend of agency experience where you can really get in there, be scrappy, get to know lots of brands, and build out your repertoire of experience from a digital perspective through those journeys you go on.
Mark Jones
You were at Apple for nearly 10 years. Describe the change that you went through, because social trends move quick and the data moves quick. And then I get this sense that over time you started becoming more aware of what we should be doing for the customer.
Melissa Shannon
So I think that most people that are digital first in their marketing like it because you get to try lots of stuff because the industry is moving really fast, the landscape's constantly evolving. We have to keep on our toes with the whole cookie less environment imminent. But the reality is that over time you realise it's not enough, right? You can always be going, trying lots of different things, but at the end of the day, you are accountable. You can't hide in a digital environment because it's data driven. And if you actually do it properly, you should be able to see near real time what profit you're making from anything that you're doing.
And so, that holds you accountable, right? And I think as a result of that, it just naturally, the data allows you just to be more aware of what you're delivering and the impact it's having. But from a customer perspective, I think that there is a lack of trust in a lot of the media, the way people are using their data now. Let's drive the commercial outcomes through innovation, through testing, but equally and if not more important is how do we do that in a way that protects our customers and ultimately that protects the brand as well?
Mark Jones
Well, let's zone in a little bit, and the performance marketing side, we haven't talked a lot about on The CMO Show. And quite obviously, you're a lot closer to the point of either a conversion from a digital point of view or a transaction, a sale, the big golden moment that we aspire to drive, the intersection of marketing and sales. What's been the biggest lesson that you've carried with you to really make that whole thing work?
Melissa Shannon
I think tracking, honestly. I think to be able to plan effectively, target appropriately, learn and optimise, you need to be able to have the proper tracking in place.
And that's really important because what you find is a lot of media channels will drive a lot of clicks. A lot of them will drive a lot of sales, but they're not high quality sales. And so, being able to then tie that back to your fulfilment centre where you can see what product they've purchased and actually whether they're funding their account, if they've activated their card, and whether they're buying new products is the absolute critical piece.
Mark Jones
It's been interesting to see how over the past, I don't know, say three to five years, we've gone from almost a mass market approach to the scenario you spoke about to this hyper-personalised world, which is informed by GenAI, of course. And we're getting smarter in terms of dealing with customers at scale, but what's interesting to me is just how niched and personalised you can get. What's been your experience on that journey?
Melissa Shannon
So actually, I lead the GenAI digital sales and marketing track for the bank. Everyone wants to do GenAI, right? It's sort of the sexy thing. It's sort of the buzzword, right?
But the reality is you'd have to be really thoughtful about it, so we've been on an 11-month journey. We have a committee that looks at everything from the decisioning systems to the technology to the legal to diversity and inclusion to make sure that we're not being biased towards certain people.
We've gone and done a variety of proof of concepts. We've got four approved through the RAI committee. We've gone and looked at the tools. We're using chat GPT, and we're using Adobe Firefly, right? And really where the main purposes of those are around localization, so translation and localization of content because we run across so many markets.
It's exciting, it's powerful, but also we have to really make sure we're thinking about the customer and we're doing it in the right way to protect them and protect the bank.
Mark Jones
It's almost like brand guidelines 2.0, right?
Melissa Shannon
100%. And in fact, what our brand guidelines will actually be built into the model. That'll be phase two. So phase two is we'll use machine learning using those brand guidelines. It'll actually learn the right greens and the right blues without us having to tell them.
Mark Jones
What are the challenges you face from a multicultural perspective and a translation perspective?
Melissa Shannon
So the translation's been a little bit tricky, and especially when you think about the different variations of Chinese, for example. Cantonese and Mandarin, there's nuances there. Also, the meaning behind translation from some English words to Chinese words can actually be offensive. And we had a couple of those examples in a previous company I can’t name , where it didn't go live, thank goodness. But it's when you've got people sitting in a western country doing creative for an eastern country, often they don't understand that translation can mean something. It's not a pure translation.
Mark Jones
Is that a human problem, do you think? Or are we going to see Gen AI rising up to take that challenge?
Melissa Shannon
So, I think it comes down to both. So, it comes down to the teams that are using it in the first place. Because all of our Gen AI is going through our standard marketing approval process, so we will have marketing managers in country approving all the content, they will be able to bring their understanding of that local nuance to the revisions that need to happen, if there are any. But then I also think over time, the model as we train it, which is phase two, should incorporate those nuances.
Mark Jones
Yeah. Well, there are really big issues that I know that many CMOs are particularly focused on. It's this interesting tension between risk and reward and opportunity. What's the big opportunity you see from a competitive point of view when you look at the intersection of all these technologies?
Melissa Shannon
Well, I think if you can get it right, it's just, again, it's around creating a relevant and meaningful experience for the customer. And frankly, I think if I look at most brands out there, I don't see anyone really doing it perfectly. And that is just by nature that everything's evolving so fast. You never have enough money to keep up with it all. It's around making sure you are focusing your money and your efforts on the tools, the technologies, the processes that actually will deliver the most meaning, and really cracking that is really what's going to set people apart.
Mark Jones
What are the sort of customer experiences that you think will really differentiate you in the marketplace? So, for example, speed... I'll just use an old-school metric. We used to get very excited about the speed of our websites, just to use that as an example.
Melissa Shannon
So, our apps have improved a lot. Definitely, speed is a big thing. Speed's a big thing from a web perspective because it helps you rank better in Google, obviously. It's one of their key signals. But from a customer experience perspective in banking and finance in particular, you want things to work and you want it to be quick. And so, speed's absolutely a key differentiator for us. And in fact, in both Hong Kong and Singapore, we've won multiple awards for our apps for the great experience we've delivered and the improvements we've driven over the last few years in making sure we can make it faster and more seamless. So, definitely that is one piece.
But I also think around just the intuitive nature of those messages. If you're going into an app, you know that you've got money owing on your card. Being able to show them, "Oh, do you know you can actually pay that off in three monthly instalments?" Right? And so, bringing some of those individually relevant, in near real time messages that actually, as a customer, it's like, "I didn't know that." And one click, it's done. But it's also good for the bank because suddenly, you're cross-selling into new products, which drives share of wallet, and obviously, in turn, reduces customer churn. So, I think being able to be personalised and relevant in near real time across all your touch points is absolutely critical.
Mark Jones
Happy customers spend more.
Melissa Shannon
Yes, exactly.
Mark Jones
Right.
Melissa Shannon
Yeah.
Mark Jones
Well, Melissa Shannon, thank you so much for being our guest. May you sleep well, regardless of all the things that you are doing. Again, appreciate all that you brought to the show today, and we'll speak to you again very soon.
Melissa Shannon
Thank you. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
Mark Jones
That was Melissa Shannon, Global Head and Managing Director, Digital Sales and Performance Marketing at Standard Chartered.
AI talk may be everywhere, but what I enjoyed with my chat with Melissa is hearing about all the thought that goes into setting up AI to be effective for your business. As marketers, we can sometimes get caught up in the newest toy or fad, but Melissa and the team at Standard Chartered are taking the time to do it, and do it properly.
A huge thank you to both Jon and Melissa for joining me on this episode. You’ve been listening to The CMO Show, proudly produced by ImpactInstitute and in partnership with Adobe. We’ll catch you next time.