Reinventing Banking with Ravi Santhanam
How does a bank become a benchmark for innovation?
HDFC Bank has evolved from a 30-year-old start-up into India’s largest private sector bank — and its transformation is still gaining momentum. At the heart of this journey is Ravi Santhanam, Chief Marketing Officer and Head of Direct to Consumer Business, who is redefining the role of marketing in the digital age.
Reimagining the role of marketing
For Ravi, marketing is no longer just about brand awareness — it’s about owning the entire customer experience. He explains, “We’re not just brand custodians anymore. We’re brand experience custodians.” This shift has been driven by digital transformation, which has allowed marketing to move beyond demand generation into demand fulfilment. “Marketing was always considered a cost centre,” he says. “Now, it’s a revenue centre. We directly contribute to the bank’s bottom line.”
Leveraging India’s digital infrastructure
India’s Digital Stack — a government-led initiative offering biometric authentication, open banking, and account aggregation — has been a game-changer. “We disburse loans in 10 seconds,” Ravi says. “It’s a complete shift from paper-led processes to seamless digital journeys.” This infrastructure has enabled HDFC Bank to scale with speed, security, and trust, setting a new global benchmark for financial services.
Personalisation at scale
With over 500 million monthly visits to its digital platforms, HDFC Bank is turning data into action. Ravi’s team uses AI and data science to personalise offers, predict customer needs, and tailor communication based on context. “It’s not just about saying ‘Hi, Mark.’ It’s about understanding why Mark needs a loan — is it for travel, a home, or a medical emergency? That’s the future of marketing,” he explains. With the rise of GenAI, the bank is now moving beyond name-based personalisation to context-driven, one-to-one communication at scale.
Leading through change
Despite the technology, Ravi says the hardest part of transformation is always the people. “The biggest challenge is change management,” he admits. “When you have a new technology and a new way of working, the most important thing is to manage this change very effectively. And over-communication is the key. No amount of communication is over-communication.” His approach has been to tell the story, listen to concerns, and show how digital helps people do their jobs better.
His advice to other CMOs and leaders is simple but powerful: “Start with the customer experience and work backwards. If you can tell that story well, you’ll get buy-in.”
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This episode of The CMO Show was brought to you by host Mark Jones, producers Kate Zadel and Kirsten Bables and audio engineers Ed Cheng and Daniel Marr. This is an edited excerpt of the podcast transcript.
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Mark Jones
What happens when a market it becomes a revenue generator when they go from only being a custodian of a brand to architecting full customer experiences? And what happens if you're a bank – even a bank that can move so fast you can approve loans within 10s and re-architect entire customer experience? Well, it's all possible, but you need the right mixture of leadership, technology, and boldness to innovate.
Hello Mark Jones here. Welcome to the CMO show. Great to have you with us again. Today we've got a really interesting insight into the heartbeat of digital banking in India. Incredible case study. My guest today is Ravi Santhanam. He is the CMO at HDFC Bank. We're going to talk about how you generate incredible revenue as a marketer, what it takes to re-architect entire customer experiences and the way that people start to think about what's possible from a bank. It's a fascinating story where all of these elements that I mentioned come together in quite a remarkable way. An inspiring story, So let's dig in.
Ravi Santhanam
Hi, my name is Ravi Santhanam. I'm the group head and chief marketing officer and head direct to consumer business at HDFC Bank, India's largest private sector bank and the 11th largest bank in the world.
Mark Jones
Is it part of a conglomerate, because almost every Indian organisation is part of a conglomerate?
Ravi Santhanam
We are actually fully public-owned. We don't have a promoter. And we are a financial powerhouse, so we are the commercial bank where I work. And we have an insurance subsidiary, life insurance, general insurance subsidiary. We have a asset management company. We have a trading and broking arm. We are a full service financial entity. You can call it a conglomerate, but without being owned by anybody. It's fully owned by public.
Mark Jones
Great. And for the listener who maybe won't understand the market dynamics, how would customers see you as different in the marketplace?
Ravi Santhanam
We started off in 1995, '96. And that was the time India was privatised and private banks were allowed to come into place. And we call ourselves 30-year-old start-up. From the time we started to where we have come today, in the last 30 years, to become the largest private sector bank in the country, the third-largest group in terms of market capitalization in the country, it's all because of how a team of professionals came together and built a bank. And the best statement that we hear from the entire Indian industry is when banking was going through problems, there was a time when people said nationalise and make it government-owned. Today, the solution for any banking problem is privatise and make it work like HDFC Bank, because we have shown the whole world that a private bank can actually do banking in the best way possible. And we are actually an example for a lot of people in the country, in terms of how we actually have to run a bank.
Mark Jones
It sounds to me like you're quite proud that the bank is effectively a benchmark.
Ravi Santhanam
We are a benchmark. And that actually puts, what do I say, a lot of stress on us in terms of wanting to maintain that position, that exalted position that we have been given by the public. It also makes us very humble in terms of what we need to continue to deliver for our customers.
Mark Jones
Now you've just delivered a presentation here at Adobe Summit in Las Vegas. Can you give me a quick overview of your topic?
Ravi Santhanam
What I presented and what we talked to the people out here is how we actually used MarTech investments, which is considered primarily to be for digital means of engaging with customers. How did we actually use the same MarTech investment for helping our employees improve their productivity? And how did we bring them onto the digital bandwagon?
Mark Jones
Okay. So, not only have you improved your customer-facing activities. You've delivered some of these productivity gains that we talk a lot about, but don't often see; is that correct?
Ravi Santhanam
Yes, absolutely.
Mark Jones
Okay. So, what was your role? Were you leading the project?
Ravi Santhanam
We started off as an investment for ensuring that marketing's contribution is measurable. The biggest question in marketing is always about what is it that you contribute. And maybe in the whole world, if I say 10 years, 15 years back, before the advent of digital transformation, digital technologies, people were only saying that marketing's job is to communicate and generate demand. And that's how I define marketing and I used to define marketing, as marketing is responsible for demand generation.
Mark Jones
Of course.
Ravi Santhanam
Maybe in the last 10 years, we have reframed it saying that marketing's job is not only to generate demand. You can actually fulfil the demand. And that's all made possible by the digital technology evolution that has happened across the world. And specific to India, we have what is called as the Digital India Stack, which has been done by the government of India.
Mark Jones
Okay. Can you summarise that briefly? What does that mean?
Ravi Santhanam
So, the Digital India Stacks allows you to actually authenticate by a digital ID of every citizen in the country. So, that's the first part of it of able to identify a customer authenticated, because we have the iris scans, we have the fingerprints, we have the facial recognition technologies all done by the government, available as a service for every industry to use to identify and authenticate a customer.
Mark Jones
So, it's a trusted solution from a banking point of view?
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly, exactly.
Mark Jones
Which by the way, that's quite remarkable for you to trust that service. In some countrie s they might have question marks. I'm not casting any aspersions. It's just that that's a very difficult process, is what I'm highlighting.
Ravi Santhanam
We started way back in 2008, '09, '10. And today, 1.4 billion citizens in the country today have a digital identity available with the government of the country.
Mark Jones
I'm sorry, don't you have 1.4 billion citizens?
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly.
Mark Jones
Okay.
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly.
Mark Jones
Just connecting some dots.
Ravi Santhanam
So, today, when we look back, we say, wow, what has we done as a country? So, the Digital India Stack, starting with authentication. Today, for example, open banking is what everybody talks about. In India, we have an account aggregator solution, again developed by the government, wherein as a consumer, on the consent of the consumer, the bank has to give all the data points that it has to anybody else who can use it.
Mark Jones
So, you've inverted perhaps what we might see in western countries, like Australia or the US, where we don't have an empowering environment to that extent?
Ravi Santhanam
We don't have. We actually have a very enabling environment, because you can identify a customer, you can underwrite the customer based on the banking information that is available, which is owned by the customer. As a bank, for example, our customers have a lot of information which we own as a bank, the first party data. But on the consent, we have to provide that information to anybody else in the financial ecosystem because it's a consumer data that is owned by the bank and it is not owned by the bank alone. So, the government has made enabling provisions for people to share their financial information to any other trusted financial institution.
Mark Jones
It's a remarkable position of power for the consumer.
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly.
Mark Jones
What implication does that have for you then in the way that you think about marketing more broadly?
Ravi Santhanam
That is what has enabled us to say that we will not only generate demand, we can actually fulfil demand. So, when it comes to banking, it is all about underwriting the credit. That's where you make your money. When consumers deposit money, it's a cost for the bank. But when consumers take money from the bank, it's all on the underwriting. And today, the underwriting is based on simple financial information that the consumer is actually providing to you. If everything is provided digitally, and if the underwriting rules can be codified in terms of digital technologies and the software, what is the reason for us not to leverage all this stuff to make the consumer experience far better?
Today, for example, we disbursed loans in 10 seconds to consumers. From the time of application to disbursement, it actually takes 10 seconds. And we started off in 2015 with our first 10-second solution. And it was a phenomenal improvement of what used to be a paper-led process, where you have to submit a huge amount of documents. And the underwriter will go through each and every document and then finally do the documentation, credit underwriting, risk and all this stuff. Today, everything is available digitally.
Mark Jones
Can I just jump in though, because that time is a remarkable customer experience.
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly.
Mark Jones
What is your default rate now?
Ravi Santhanam
The default rate, we are the best bank in the country and our NPAs are 0.3%, 0.35%.
Mark Jones
So, you're telling me it works?
Ravi Santhanam
Absolutely, it works.
Mark Jones
Had to ask.
Ravi Santhanam
And the name that we have got is because of the credit policies that we have in the bank.
Mark Jones
Yes. And also the environment that you're operating in.
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly.
Mark Jones
Can you tell me then, what's been the problem that you've been looking to address?
Ravi Santhanam
When I joined the bank in 2018, what we used to see is marketing is primarily in the demand generation space and not necessarily in the demand fulfilment space. Everything that you consume from a bank is digital in nature. And if we see USA, for example, the credit card is inside your Apple phone and use actually Apple Pay or any other wallet solution to actually go... The only physical form of a bank product is the credit card. The rest of the things are all money and it's all digitised in India.
So, if everything is digitised, why can't we actually start originating and servicing in the digital world and why do we only transactions in the digital world?
Mark Jones
Yes.
Ravi Santhanam
So, banking is all about transactions, which is all digitised across the world. And we said why can't we originate the account opening or a loan that is being disbursed to a customer, or a credit card that is being bought by the customer? Why can't we digitise the entire way in which we actually originate underwrite, as well as disburse the money? And that's what we have done.
Mark Jones
One of the speakers this morning in the keynote session I think from ServiceNow said friction is the enemy of marketing.
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly.
Mark Jones
So, it sounds to me like you've gone after the digital friction. Is that a good summary?
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly. We actually wanted to remove the physical friction. And we said digital is a solution to remove the physical friction. And even in the digital world, there is some friction that is required from an underwriting perspective, because you do need to understand the credentials of the customer. And whenever we do have credit policies, it is all about making sure that the customer is benefiting from the loan that we provide and they don't over-leverage their positions. So, there is a friction that is required, but for a certain customer segment, for a certain cohort of customers that friction can be removed because you have so much of data available in the bank already. For a certain set of segment customers, you can actually remove the friction. For other customer sets, you want to create a little bit of friction to just make sure that you do the underwriting properly.
Mark Jones
So, I want to ask about tech and then we'll talk about how you tell the story in marketing. One of my favourite things to say about banks is that I think they're technology companies with a banking licence.
Ravi Santhanam
We want to be a banking company where banking is enabled by technology.
Mark Jones
Yeah, of course. And I'm being cheeky, right?
Ravi Santhanam
Okay.
Mark Jones
But what I mean by that is people are very interested to know what technologies are you using to enable the solution you just rolled out.
Ravi Santhanam
So, we started off with the customer experience that we wanted to provide. And we worked backwards to figure out what is a technology solution that will enable us to provide that customer experience. If I have to originate an account opening, I don't need to authenticate the customer. So, there is another solution that I talked about which is available, which allows me to authenticate the customer. I don't need to understand the financial position of a customer if we have to go on a credit card or for a loan or something. Today, the account aggregator ecosystem allows us to do it. There are so much of APIs that are available from the government of India, where I can actually call the income tax database and get to know your tax returns all with the consent of the customer.
Now, if that is available, what we need to do is to actually create a journey which the consumer is willing to go through today, because every other ecosystem, people have started moving towards buying everything in e-commerce, buying a ticket in e-commerce, everything is being done digitally. So, we said this is a supply constrained economy, where if we provide the supply, consumers will adopt it even in banking in terms of origination and servicing.
Mark Jones
Okay. So, speed is key in all of that?
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly. And more than speed, what we think is how can we improve the experience of the better. And if there is a physical process, for example, there is a lot of things that happens because the documents are not fully collected at one time.
Mark Jones
Just briefly, what technology companies are you working with?
Ravi Santhanam
We work with a lot of technology companies. I think almost the big four or five, all of them are working with us. And Adobe is a good partner for us, in terms of creating the customer experience. We do work with ServiceNow. We do work with Oracle. And the name you say the base of the technology companies, we work with most of them.
Mark Jones
Great. How do you tell this story?
Ravi Santhanam
For us, it's all about what is it that marketing can do. The ambit became larger, purely because of the advent of digital transformation that happened in the whole world and particularly in India, in terms of the authentication solution that I talked about. Why do you have to restrict yourself to demand generation? How can you become a revenue marketeer? Because marketing was always considered a cost centre, so can I convert it into a revenue centre? And that's how the whole start point was. And we have been extremely lucky to be in India at that time when the digital evolution happened. And we are able to more than make up for all the question marks on marketing in terms of what's your contribution, because today we directly contribute to revenue.
Mark Jones
It sounds to me like sales and marketing joined together.
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly, exactly.
Mark Jones
Okay. So, have you developed a campaign around this? And I'm interested to know the customer mindset, if I think about what must be millions of customers. What are they looking for? How do you tell the story in a particularly uniquely Indian context? Because in my experience, there's many cultures and you've really got to have a message that will apply in different geographical contexts, for example.
Ravi Santhanam
See, the way we actually looked at the market and the consumer behaviour that was changing, is people started moving towards e-commerce. Today, it's actually quick commerce in India, where you can get delivery in 10 minutes. People started moving towards mobility, in terms of digital, whether it is Uber or Ola equivalent in India. People started using digital to actually engage with many of the industries. And I have a theory called the threshold of irreversibility, where after a certain point of time when the new way in which you are working is becoming so convenient that you forget that there used to be a way that I used to go to a place to book a ticket. I used to call an agent to book a ticket. So, transactions, digitization happened in the banking industry way ahead of time. Almost 90%, 95% of our transactions are digital today, when you move money.
You don't actually visit a physical branch, unless it is a large money transfer that you do. And we said if everything is moving on the transaction side, digital, it is supply constrained. We need to give the option to the customer to actually consume a product that we provide on the digital means, because they're doing it for every other aspects of their life. So, for us, it was more about making sure that people know that you can actually do it. And as a bank, we have this phenomenal advantage that where people come into our mobile app or our website to actually do the transactions.
If they're there, can we actually personalise that interaction, where we can actually prompt the customer to say, "Hey, this is the offer that is available, if you want to take it, you just have to click here and complete the journey, and it is available in 10 seconds, in three minutes, in 10 minutes?" And people are not hesitant. People are initially hesitant to say, "Okay, should I try?" And it's a question of trial and error for some people. Once a certain amount of customers start using it, the early adopters start using it and then you think there's a huge tsunami of people now wanting to do it, because they're doing it in every other aspect of their life. Why should I not do it in the banking side for origination?
Mark Jones
Okay. I'm not hearing that you've developed a campaign around this so much as how you've rolled the product out; is that right?
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly. We do have to do a campaign to tell people that it is available. We just have to tell them, because anyway, walking in into our mobile map, we have what, almost 500 million visits a month in our digital properties today. We just have to make sure that every one of those visits are personalised experience. So, if you can create that personalised experience, you don't have to reach out to them, because they're anyway walking into your shop.
Mark Jones
How do you grow competitively? Is there an experience where, for example, customers can refer you to others?
Ravi Santhanam
See, for us, market is huge. And we like competition, because it makes us better every day. We keep benchmarking ourselves with what is happening in the market internationally, as well as domestically. And we say, okay, we need to provide the best customer experience possible. And it is about service. Banking is a service. And the more services that you're able to provide, the more friendly the interactions are, the more you're able to actually be in touch with the consumer needs, people will prefer a bank.
The cost of switching is not very high. So, you need to be extremely clear that you are providing cutting-edge consumer service. If you can actually predict the need of the customer, which today's technology allows you to do a lot more and make the offers available to the customer at the right moment, I think you are in the game. If you're not able to do it, I don't think you're in the game.
Mark Jones
I tend to agree with you. And I'm trying to get my head around the idea that people might actually like banks in India, as opposed to Australia and many other countries. We have a long history of, well, in brand terms, a very poor level of trust or certainly sentiment. Tell me about product marketing, because it seems to me that the conversation is evolving into this space where marketing meets sales, meets a deep understanding of how the product works. And we're using a CX label for some of that. But I suspect from the way that you're speaking, there's possibly a bit more to it.
Ravi Santhanam
There's a lot more to it, because what we do is a huge amount of work on consumer understanding. One is a data part of it, the other is actual spending time. Banks, again, have the physical advantage of consumers walking into your branches, day in and day out. They also walk into a digital properties. As I said, 500 million visits a month. They says it's also physical walk-in which happens and they're having interactions with our sales team. So, what we need to do is to go there, and park ourselves, and just watch what is it that they're coming in for. What are the service need that they're having for? What is it that they're saying that you are doing well, you're not doing well? And this kind of an interaction and availability of information in the sales ecosystem, in the branch ecosystem, we just need to find a method to harness it.
Moment you go ahead and start talking to your salesmen, they will tell you what exactly the consumer is coming in for, what they're looking for, what is good about your product, what is not good about the product, because the consumers do all the comparison for you and come back and say, "I'm not using a credit card because it doesn't give me value here or here. I use your credit card and it is not getting accepted internationally here, there and all this stuff." So, that much of information, I don't think any other industry has it. If I go into a retail shop, for example, people will look for certain things. If it is not available, they're not going to come and complain to the counter saying it's not available. They'll go find somewhere else where it is available. And not every retail will stock everything. So, they all understand that this is a retail-specific, for say, for example, household goods is very different. Furniture retail is very different.
Second is actually directly meeting customers. You go sit in the branches, you walk in, customers are there. You just have a conversation with them. And we don't have to do focus group discussions beyond the point, because we have so many customer interactions that are happening on a daily basis. You just have to be open to listening to their feedback. And you get phenomenal, tonnes and tonnes of feedback.
While we do a lot of listening on the social media also, which is what the other way of doing feedback is. We have the advantage of a physical flesh and blood human being walking into a branch for transactions and for giving you feedback because they have a problem, they want to sort out, they want to understand something. They come into the branches, they call their call centres. That feedback, if you can put it together, you have a phenomenal understanding of what the needs are. Then you have to actually benchmark saying, "Okay, what is the product that I can create to satisfy those needs?" And if it is creating a win-win proposition, you actually start winning in the market. Today, we are proud and at the same time we are humble, because in every retail product of the banking industry, we are number one.
Mark Jones
I think we're now moving into a world where we used to say there's an app for that to now there's an AI for that. And I suspect that you will be trailing and using AI agents, not just through Adobe and other partners, but yourselves and really experimenting with how to develop all of this. I'm interested to know what does the future look like in that context.
Ravi Santhanam
I'll give you a little bit of context of India in terms of technology, and what banks use in terms of artificial intelligence and other stuff. We are big consumers of artificial intelligence. Our credit underwriting, as well as marketing, understanding of consumers, works a huge amount of data that is available with us, as well as in the third-party ecosystem. And we make sure that we use that to actually underwrite customers. So, there's a huge amount of modelling. I have a 80 member data science team. That's the power of the data science investments that we have done. Also, very many advanced technologies that we have used across the ecosystem, whatever is available, to both underwrite as well as understand the customers. That is helping us identify the need of the customer. What is the offer that is available? Today, what we see is the ability to personalise and personalise at scale in terms of the narrative that we do.
I think that's going to come in because of the new wave of GenAI investments that we are talking about. I have this simple equation that when I talk to you, for example, I understand the context. What is the conversation that we are having? And while I might know a lot about you, context determines the way we communicate with each other. This is true for every human being. This is true for every interaction that we do. How can we bring, not only the behavioural information, the transaction information that's available, also understanding the context of the consumer situation and actually pin the narrative in line with the context that the consumer is actually looking for?
If I understand, for example, you need money because you want to go on a foreign travel and you want to enjoy your vacation, compared to you need money to construct your home, compared to you need money because there is an emergency family situation, some medical emergency, can we understand that context? In each one of them, I will talk to you very differently as an individual. How do we actually bring that context into the communication that we do? And how do we personalise the narrative? Today, when we do hyper-personalization, it is on the basis of your name. For example, we'll say, "Hey, Mark," and we'll put your card number. We'll say, "This is the outstanding." And all these are number point personalization. This is personalization and that's what is possible today. But what we want to do is the communication narrative. How do we actually personalise that? And I think that's where GenAI is going to make a big, big difference.
Mark Jones
And I think that's how we get beyond the idea of hyper-variation of content at scale, versus using AI to create this content on the fly at scale at a one-to-one level. So, that makes sense to me. It's really fascinating to hear the way that you're bringing all of these ideas together in one place. What would you say has been the hardest thing about your journey?
Ravi Santhanam
The hardest thing is always about change management.
Mark Jones
People?
Ravi Santhanam
People. When you have a new technology and a new way of working, I think the biggest thing that we need to do is to manage this change very effectively. And over-communication is the key. No amount of communication is over-communication. So, how do we actually go ahead and tell the story of what you wanted to achieve, what the bank wants to achieve, to a large set of people so that they come on board? When I talked about digital origination, you immediately sense a conflict with the physical ecosystem. Because they're saying, "I'm doing the sales." Now, here is a competing channel which has come in and they're talking to the same customers. And they also understand that digital is an advantage because I can talk to all the customers at one go, whereas they have to do one-on-one.
So, how do you bring the digital ecosystem to benefit the salespeople on the ground? This requires a huge amount of communication. We are lucky that the bank bought into this vision and the amount of communication that we have done across the ecosystem, in terms of going ahead, talking to people, listening to their concerns, showcasing them how digital actually helps them improve their productivity. This change management is the biggest thing that we have to do.
Mark Jones
When people hear you speak or ask you about your story, I'm quite sure they also ask you what advice you have. How would you advise somebody else who perhaps doesn't have the same favourable regulatory environment as you to adopt elements of your story?
Ravi Santhanam
I think always start with the consumer experience that you want to deliver and work backwards. And there is no person in any industry who is going to come and say that, "Hey, I don't want to improve consumer experience." This might look like loud talk. What you need to do is to make sure that particular consumer experience, you start defining in what way it'll improve. What is the current situation? What is it that you're trying to do? And how does actually it translates into better consumer experience? If you say this story well, I'm sure you're going to get a lot of stakeholders to buy into this mission and they will all start supporting you, because you have to also tell them how it is going to help you do your job better.
Mark Jones
Why do you think that's so hard for so many people? Because it's easy to say start with the customer and we hear it all the time.
Ravi Santhanam
Change is very difficult. I think all of us get into this mode of having done certain things in a certain way. And all of us have grown because we have done it in a certain way. And then it's very difficult to say that what I used to do is no longer relevant. It actually sometimes questions your existence. And I think that's the biggest challenge many people feel once they actually start growing in their career.
Mark Jones
If I do your idea, I might lose my job.
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly, or I may not be doing it so well. I'm very comfortable with what I already have. It works for me. For example, we are the number one bank. We are number one in every product. So, when we say all these stuff, also even in the bank question, anyway, we are number one, what is it that we need to do now? Why should we change? And that's where I think the CEO's vision, and the ability of the organisation to rally around that kind of a vision, and what the senior leaders do in terms of rallying around that vision and building all the morale of the troops to say, "Hey, this is the part that we need to do, go forward because it'll help you in this way. It'll help our customers in this way." Once you crystallise that, I think it's relatively easy, but it's a tough job.
Mark Jones
Yes. I was going to say it's a leadership challenge, because the only way to go is down when you're number one. So, you have to have a vision for how can we be even better. And you have to be self-driven and self-motivated. And that's a very hard thing to do when you're number one for many organisations.
Ravi Santhanam
Exactly. Exactly.
Mark Jones
It's been an absolute delight speaking to you and hearing your story. And really, for bringing a fresh perspective on the intersection of marketing, sales, product development, and leadership. An incredible story. So, again, thank you very much.
Ravi Santhanam
Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Mark, for having us and making sure that our story is told to the whole world. Thank you.
Mark Jones
Well, that's a wrap on this episode of the CMO Show. Thanks again for joining us. I got to say, one of the key things that I took out of my conversation with Ravi was how this transformation experience that he's been on is a great lesson for us. It reminds us of the importance of leadership, of using the right technologies for the right outcomes, and being able to think about how you bring a whole team together with a common vision. A really great example of all the key elements coming together. And really, when you think about it, how the role of the CMO continues to expand. We need to start thinking in these much broader transformational terms and he's really given us a great case study. So I hope you take a lot out of it. That's it for this episode and we'll see you next time.